Feminism vs Men’s Rights Activism – using magnets

by AVfM’s own Alison Tieman (Typhonblue)

Men’s Rights activists seek to bring awareness to how men are acted upon by society, acted upon by other men and acted upon by women.

They are opposed by feminists who think that bringing attention to how men are acted upon will take something away from women.

Every era has had its mythology of women’s weakness and men’s strength. Ours is no different and it’s not progressive.

How easy is it for you to see Jill as a victim? How hard is it for you to see Jack as vulnerable?

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  • I think the problem is that anything taken to the extreme can be a bad thing. It's one thing to recognize that men are on average physically stronger than women. But it's another to say that because men are stronger, they can never be victimized. especially not by women.
    The idea of men being strong but also violent predators, and that of women being weak but also innocent and incapable of harm is that place where traditionalism and feminism go hand-in-hand

  • Only in a world where women are helpless children that need to be protected and supported, feminism as we have it can develop.
    If feminist really would want women to be seen as equal they would have to stop playing this blame and guilt game.
    But feminism of today has managed to establish the paradox perception that women are superior and at the same time week and helpless victims that need special support and cannot be held accountable for their actions or for the outcome of this actions.
    If you start thinking about it, it is hard to comprehend how you ever could follow that insanity and how the western world as a whole still does.

  • Women need feminism so they can claim at the same time to be
    – week, helpless, unaccountable, victims that need special support, protection and treatment
    while being
    – equal, strong, independent, capable and self–reliant 
    And not being call out on these incredible nonsense contradictions. 

  • There is a video clip of Alison Armstrong's that pretty much says the same thing. The Clip is titled "How To Change A Woman The Slightest Criticism Will Do". the feminist are constantly spewing Man=Predator Woman=Prey statements. Say something repeatedly and people will start to believe you. Saying the same thing every waking moment and people will start to question and look into it further.

  • well. problems are the hard enforcement of gender roles by society. and society means everybody. but the genderroles did not came from feminism. (also there is not one feminism, like there os not juts one  mens rights group. different people  different ideas, its a sliding scale of opinions.  but i do ask-where DOEs come the idea of the "strong, stoic man", of the weak woman? were does the idea, that a man is weak when he is a vctim of violence but does not relatiate or that he is weak if he is a victim of docmestic violence?where does that idea come friom, that a  man who wears clothe condirerd girly, likes for example my little pony can be bullied? wher does the idea come from, that women and girls can act boyis but boys not girl-ish? what does that say? that acting girlish is bad? why? does it?
    where does come the idea that men need to fight in a war and women not? who are the people in our society who decide that? or the idea that a woman is better in caring and parenting(and therefore should get the children in case of divorce-and also should stay at home in case o not divorce(which leads to poverty. if you stay at home you cant learn/have a job. after the children are old enough you wont get a job in these times. thats the reason why 70{2926adbe9d5efe15cdd71803f3adbd0753091c5491a4687b622765a0a93bb12e} of the people who are old and poor are women. but where does that idea come from? who made it and who enforced it? how did these ideas change in history or did they change at all?

    so these are a lot of questions..

  • 50{2926adbe9d5efe15cdd71803f3adbd0753091c5491a4687b622765a0a93bb12e} of US population are women, yet 98{2926adbe9d5efe15cdd71803f3adbd0753091c5491a4687b622765a0a93bb12e} of garbage collectors in US are men. Why don't Feminists want equality there?

  • I love the message this brings! Finally this problem is getting voiced, cause even at a young age, if a young girl slaps a boy, the boy is taught not to retaliate or even show self defense. I think its sick because more and more feminists say that you "Can not oppress the oppressor", and stating that males are always the predators. 

  • You make good points and I agree with everything here, but men's rights activism is NOT the solution to any of this. The solution is to understand feminism more, and understand that patriarchy – the idea that men are strong, the 'actors' – is what feminists want to bring down. Feminists are against patriarchy. Without patriarchy, the issues that men face would be heavily ameliorated if not gone. True feminism does not dehumanise men, and that's what both men and women, feminists and non-feminists, need to realise.

  • So basically at their cores, feminists want to prove that women can be the actors, thus lifting their statuses to match that of men. Mras want to prove that they can be acted upon, thus lowering their statuses to that of women, meaning that both become actors and acted upons. So both are fighting toward the same goal in opposite directions

  • Feminism: the belief in the political, social and economic equality of the sexes.

    Why is that so hard for people to grasp?

  • As women are the 'passive' sex, our mind just prolongates what our instincts tell. Once upon a time, when we were protozoa, there must have been entities that were brought to the Ocean by a wave, and protozoa that wanted to spread as much as possible, in a basic way of 'motivation', as temperature, humidity, and numerous variables changed us to multiple cell organisms, a faster evolution needed sexes, etc… . 'Passive' meaning, without the 'active' erection, nothing happens, allthough we know our erection is a natural response to our configuration of our conditioned mind, projecting the female (in our case) as 'motive', etc… so, our society is a bit bound to designate women as 'acted upon', and males as 'actors'. Everything that merges, seperates and vice versa.

  • Interesting the comment that women are seen as acted upon. In sexual assalt cases it is very common for people to question the victims actions; for example the clothes they wear etc.

    The points about mens suicide is valid, but the statistical significance of men's suicide is very well known. Movember was started specifically to raise awareness about men's mental health issues. In my country there is a program called "men's shed" which specifically deals with this tragedy by encouraging men to get help if they are depressed. Yes, men's mental health is a massive issue. Being a feminist does not mean that I'm happy about it or that I deny is an issue. It's mysoginy that says men are animalistic. Feminism exists in part because we know men ate more than that.

  • Well, this has made me become an MRA now, great video, also everytime jack got hit, didn't it look like jill was fucking him? C'mon, it did, admit it.

  • You know this video is supporting feminism…right guys?? Lmao everyone thinks it's not. This is what feminism is. Saying women can also be strong and men can also be weak.

  • This video is everything I've always been trying to articulate about this subject. Thank you to whomever made it. Every person, regardless of gender, has the ability to be a victim or a oppressor. The only way to get rid of sexism is to stop seeing people as "actors" and "acted upon" due to their gender and start determining who they are based on what they are like as a person. We need to stop seeing sexism as "women's issues" and "men's issues" and start seeing it as human issues.

  • While the video itself i totally agree with, i disagree that's it's directly contrary to feminist ideology. I'm deeply frustrated by the binary discussion occurring that has and is fostering this deep "with us or against us" way of thinking. This should be open dialogue and a full cooperative exploration of issues. But instead a video that many feminists might at least partially agree with is titled as opposing feminism, using language to divide rather than to create understanding, which should be the duty of any social activist. To understand, and to help foster understanding, not to create division.

  • I Should Be Able To Get Drunk Without Getting Raped. (chick logic)

    Hi. I'm Professor Cos. Ladies… We don't live in a world of "what should" we live in a world of "what is". Unfortunately as a woman, you don't have the luxury of getting drunk and sprawling out around strange men simply because "they shouldn't" sexually assault you. Or because "you should" be able to get drunk without getting raped. You have to take responsibility for situations you put yourself in and people you expose yourself to. Since we live in the real world of "what is" some men will take you without your consent. And no amount of "yes means yes" laws are gonna change that. Criminals will be criminals.

    But before you bitch about that, pay attention to how your inconvenience inconveniences men.

    Men are the ones who look bad and pay the bigger price as a result of you not having the luxury to simply live in a world of "what should". Not having that luxury means you have the luxury of alienating men just to get them to feel like they are a threat to your safety, even when you feel completely safe and just want to mess with them. You also have the luxury of having sex with a man and deciding to report it as rape simply because you regretted having sex with him. Should a man get accused of rape, he would be treated (at least by the public) as guilty until proven innocent, and would never be able to fully clear his name even after it's been made clear to the public that he was falsely accused. His accuser may not even face a harsh penalty. Meanwhile that guy will lose his job or get expelled from school.

    Men don't have the luxury of getting off the bus in between stops at night. You do. There is a higher chance that a man (especially if he's a smaller man) will get robbed or attacked by a group of thugs compared to your chances of getting raped by those thugs. He also has to fend for himself. If he does get attacked, people passing by may not intrude, but assume he's getting what he deserves. If he's lucky, they might report a man being attacked because they are too scared to get involved. Should a woman be in that same position, white knights will come to the rescue even if she did something to deserve to get her ass kicked.

    Here's a way to help yourself as well as the men around you…

    If you have no intentions of having sex with a guy, you shouldn't go to his place, and he shouldn't go to yours. And you'd be a bigger idiot to have a guy you don't want to have sex with, sleep in your bed and expect him to stay on "his side" of the bed.

    Don't be an attention whore, then complain about the unwanted attention. If you decide to dress like a slut, you're gonna get everybody's attention, not just the guys you want to have sex with or tease. No amount of slutwalks are gonna change the amount of glances or cat calls you get. Yes, I know! You should be able to dress how you want and/or walk down the street without being cat called. And the president should be able to go where he wants without the secret service. Seriously ladies! Lets smarten up a little!

    Here's another luxury you have at mens expense…

    If you're stupid enough to put on a skimpy outfit and get drunk around strangers, you won't be treated like an adult if something happens to you as a result of your poor decision. Instead, you will be treated like a child victim and told that it's not your fault. You won't be taught to take responsibility for your choices, you will be supported and pandered to and invited to give women a voice, in other words, give more stupid women like yourself a false sense of empowerment while re enforcing the idea that nothing is ever your mistake. In the meantime, men will be forced to acknowledge that they are potential rapists and scolded into being better, kinder, safer, gentlemen.

    If you get upset when a man condescends to you by treating you like a helpless child, think twice before telling him to treat you like an adult. He is only doing what he was scolded for not doing. If you insist that you're a big girl, you should try treating yourself like one and encourage other women to do the same. It was you who demanded that men treat you like a lady and called them insensitive whenever they told you to be responsible for yourself like an adult.

    Since the feminine values are more important than common sense and rational thinking, it's safe to say that sensitivity is more important than the truth. So ladies, I guess it's only right that anything said about you that reflects on your attitude and mindset, regardless of how true and constructive, should be considered hate speech!

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